Coronavirus (COVID-19) Topic

[ThePrincipal]

it's because humans as a whole are stupid - and we can't work together

2022 will see more of the world let it rip - let's see what that does I guess

Look forward to the next variant coming mid year to remove Omicron (persei 8) variant!

[Katsching]

I could get eaten up for posting this but...

Just so you know, I consider myself a cautious, responsible kind of guy but IN THEORY, aren't only 0,01 - 0,1% of the population in intensive care and the majority of this percentage are old people? And aren't the demographic distribution and the fact that people are getting older and older "issues" for years now? Yet, countries are shuting down and economies are collapsing while one problem would actually solve another one? This is just theoretical and it's basically an ethical disaster but it's just interesting how countries and governments are reacting to numbers...

On the other hand, I wish to see this thing being suffocated to some extend. My father has been waiting for a brain surgery for over a year now to help his Parkinson's and there are no doctors and beds available for him in this specific hospital due to COVID intensive cases - his surgery has been postponed several times already (a similar case with a friend of him that has to wait for a head tumor to get removed - it's fucked up, he could die anytime and can't get a surgery due to this virus basically)

It's simply a struggle. People in charge of countries are not capable and skilled enough to handle it, so so many things just don't add up. And as Principal said, we as humans can't work together either.

[DjVero]

What DS said. Our government is as incapable as 4 year old kids. And they're disconnected from society. They have no idea what people need and want. To top it off, the continuous lying by Mark & Hugo. Promising things that will happen that never happen. Promising things definitely won't happen, that happen a few months later. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

And you mention economy. But what about mental health?

There are increases in suicides. Increases in depression. Increases in alcoholism and drug abuse. Increases in domestic violence. Increases in obesity (which means the lockdowns are counterproductive since obesity makes a covid infection a lot worse than if at a healthy weight). Increases in unemployment. Etc etc.

And the vax/no vax debate. Families are being torn apart because of it. Relationships. Friend groups.

I've said it since March 2020 and I still stand by it: lockdowns and all those (random, ineffective) rules do way more damage than this virus.

Are those 'leaders' gonna pay for the immense economic and mental damage? All the suicides? All the people who became obese, all the people who became drug addicts because they don't know how to cope with these uncertain and depressive times where there is no light at the end of the tunnel? No.

This world is fucked up beyond repair. And the percentage that stands up, says something about it, actually cares, is way too low. It's sickening.

So it's the government's fault that people are such fucking pussies these days?

People can't go to the gym anymore --> "booooo, I'm crying, I can't go to the gym anymore, now I'll be a fattie."
People can't go the bar anymore --> "booo, I'm crying, I can't go to the bar, now I'll be an alcoholic."
People can't go the cinema, theatre, etc. anymore --> "boo, I'm crying, now I'll be depressed."

It's their own fault. If people can't even enjoy themselves anymore, that's not up to the government. Holy shit, I didn't know society was at such a low level that when a government impedes a human's movement that entire society starts to crack. There's a whole freaking continent where they have to live like this, and we start crying over a few bans

Enjoy family time, at home.
Enjoy time with friends, wherever. Drink beer. Smoke a few, whatever.
Do your workouts outside.
Watch Netflix.
Game the electricity out of your PC, I don't care.

It ain't that hard....

[Emre]

People's ability to enjoy themselves properly differ person by person. Humans are social beings, we aren't made for lockdowns. And if it actually helped, which it doesn't, and if lockdowns weren't damaging, sure. But they are. You lack empathy. You sound like my parents, oh, don't bitch so much, blablabla, I don't believe you want to kill yourself, since you (fake a) smile everyday, it can't be that bad. You sound like the type of guy that thinks depression is just a dip and overrated.

Inlevingsvermogen, what a beautiful thing.

[DjVero]

Fine, but that's not because of the government imo.

[Emre]

Fine, but that's not because of the government imo.

They are very, very disconnected from the actual real world, the real people. The measures they take don't make sense 9 out of 10 times. They lie time after time. They never admit their mistakes.

Mouthmasks? Don't work. Asides from collecting bacteria and giving headaches when having to wear it everyday at work for hours.

Evening clock? Didn't work.

Closing gyms? Complete bullshit and counterproductive (raises obesity).

Thousands of small businesses, aka people's fucking LIFEWORK, ruined.

Opening stores for shorter amount of hours = more crowdedness = more contactmoments = counterproductive.

Vaccins are the way out? Nope. Booster booster booster all you want for the coming years, gl.

Not to mention the media framing 24/7.

The list goes on and on. Yes, it is the government's fault. You can follow unlogical rules all you want, tell me in a few years if it changed anything in the long run. I will never trust a government that keeps lying and have the capability of 4 year olds.

Lockdowns are cancer. Look at where we are now, still fucked up, now let's look at the results: depression, suicides, drug abuse, alcoholism, domestic violence, marriages fucked up, friend groups ripped apart, business owners fucked over, etc etc etc. This won't stop until everyone stops obeying this bullshit. You are part of the problem.

[Xurreal]

so here is what happens when you let the virus roam completely free.

1.) intensive care fills with covid patients (mostly old, mortality rate: 30 - 40%)
2.) intensive care units reach maximum capacity
3.) intensive care units are unable to take in any new patients (including cancer and similar)
Other operations are postponed. Medical staff starts to burn out
4.) -> Silent triage (the stage Germany has reached at this point)
5.) More young people in need of intensive care
6.) Not only old people will die
7.) -> Daily triage (good luck)

Who needs intensive care?
Patients need it for recovery after intense surgery
-> this includes: Heart problems, lung problems, organ failure, blood infections, drug-resistant infections, serious injury and brain trauma (e.g. after car accidents)

Why not just increase the capacity of iuc?
Because the staff needs to be highly qualified and there's no chance to get to this level in such a short time.

what might happen at the beginning of 2022:
It is to be expected that the omicron wave will hit the decreasing delta wave (which is still very high in total numbers) in January 2022 (Europe).
In fact no one knows how to deal with this situation and how this'll really affect us, so we can see half-assed preemptive strategies widely differing from country to country.

"Fortunately, rates of suicide have declined or remained stable across the world during this pandemic thus far.
The increased suicide during COVID” message is not entirely consistent with actual data."
Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8110323/
At the current point, prevention for the aftermath of the pandemic is necessary, and (personal opinion) I fear this is indeed being overlooked again.
But problems like drug abuse, domestic violence & co., are they really made by the government?
I think that's made solely by society.

I don't know how harsh the restrictions are in the Netherlands, but I am still able to see my friends and drink a few beer too much.

Still need to look out as the anti-corona movements in Germany are increasingly being undermined by the far right. It's a good right to show your dissatisfaction against a looming mandatory vaccination, but I just can't take people seriously that walk side by side with antisemits and citizens of the Reich.

Vaccins are the way out? Nope. Booster booster booster all you want for the coming years, gl.

So far they helped quite a lot, although I agree on many of the meantioned measures being ineffectual.

Mouthmasks? Don't work.

Please, don't talk bullshit. That's been proven for over a year now

[DjVero]

Fine, but that's not because of the government imo.

They are very, very disconnected from the actual real world, the real people. The measures they take don't make sense 9 out of 10 times. They lie time after time. They never admit their mistakes.

Mouthmasks? Don't work. Asides from collecting bacteria and giving headaches when having to wear it everyday at work for hours.

Evening clock? Didn't work.

Closing gyms? Complete bullshit and counterproductive (raises obesity).

Thousands of small businesses, aka people's fucking LIFEWORK, ruined.

Opening stores for shorter amount of hours = more crowdedness = more contactmoments = counterproductive.

Vaccins are the way out? Nope. Booster booster booster all you want for the coming years, gl.

Not to mention the media framing 24/7.

The list goes on and on. Yes, it is the government's fault. You can follow unlogical rules all you want, tell me in a few years if it changed anything in the long run. I will never trust a government that keeps lying and have the capability of 4 year olds.

Lockdowns are cancer. Look at where we are now, still fucked up, now let's look at the results: depression, suicides, drug abuse, alcoholism, domestic violence, marriages fucked up, friend groups ripped apart, business owners fucked over, etc etc etc. This won't stop until everyone stops obeying this bullshit. You are part of the problem.

Wow thats quite some assumptions you make there. I wonder if you can back up all these "facts" with reliable sources.

Coz as far as i can tell i dont see many of these assumptions in real life, and i see dozens of people every day and just like 90% of the people they just live their lives. You're not a scientist, so stop acting like one.

Maybe you should also stop projecting your own thoughts to a whole society, because it's simply not true. It might even help you too in the end.

[Emre]

"Fortunately, rates of suicide have declined or remained stable across the world during this pandemic thus far.
The increased suicide during COVID” message is not entirely consistent with actual data."
Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8110323/

For every study that shows this, I can give you 3 proven unbiased studies that show the opposite. + enough anectodal evidence around me, literally everyone I know is at a lower point mentally than before the lockdown.

But problems like drug abuse, domestic violence & co., are they really made by the government?

Let's start off by saying people's life choices are their own responsibility. Still, if you take things away from people that used to give them life joy, they WILL cope. One is more resistant to this than the other. So yes, they are partly responsible for the increase in my eyes, because they took the measures, they put the lockdowns in place.

I don't know how harsh the restrictions are in the Netherlands, but I am still able to see my friends and drink a few beer too much.

We all do. Imagine listening to that bullshit.

So far they helped quite a lot, although I agree on many of the meantioned measures being ineffectual

..yet, where are we now? Still in the shit. Meanwhile, mental & economic degeneration is continuing.

And they're not gonna pay for it. Sickening.

[Emre]

Fine, but that's not because of the government imo.

They are very, very disconnected from the actual real world, the real people. The measures they take don't make sense 9 out of 10 times. They lie time after time. They never admit their mistakes.

Mouthmasks? Don't work. Asides from collecting bacteria and giving headaches when having to wear it everyday at work for hours.

Evening clock? Didn't work.

Closing gyms? Complete bullshit and counterproductive (raises obesity).

Thousands of small businesses, aka people's fucking LIFEWORK, ruined.

Opening stores for shorter amount of hours = more crowdedness = more contactmoments = counterproductive.

Vaccins are the way out? Nope. Booster booster booster all you want for the coming years, gl.

Not to mention the media framing 24/7.

The list goes on and on. Yes, it is the government's fault. You can follow unlogical rules all you want, tell me in a few years if it changed anything in the long run. I will never trust a government that keeps lying and have the capability of 4 year olds.

Lockdowns are cancer. Look at where we are now, still fucked up, now let's look at the results: depression, suicides, drug abuse, alcoholism, domestic violence, marriages fucked up, friend groups ripped apart, business owners fucked over, etc etc etc. This won't stop until everyone stops obeying this bullshit. You are part of the problem.

Wow thats quite some assumptions you make there. I wonder if you can back up all these "facts" with reliable sources.

Coz as far as i can tell i dont see many of these assumptions in real life, and i see dozens of people every day and just like 90% of the people they just live their lives. You're not a scientist, so stop acting like one.

Maybe you should also stop projecting your own thoughts to a whole society, because it's simply not true. It might even help you too in the end.

Which assumptions?

Evening clock didn't work is actually spoken out by Hugo himself. (It's also the only thing they actually took responsibility for, they didn't say sorry, but alright)

Closing gyms = raising obesity - come on, you don't need to be a scientist for that. And you know people with obesity have a way higher chance of dieing from covid than non-obese people, so yes, it is counterproductive. Everything needs to be backed with some random study links nowadays, use your common sense.

Thousands of small business ruined is a fact, you can find that everywhere, even in my shitty town with a few thousand people, multiple small businesses went bankrupt. Businesses people spent 20+ years of their life on. Now, multiply this by the amount of small businesses in the whole world. COMMON SENSE.

Opening stores for shorter times. Look, again, common sense. People NEED to buy their shit. If a store is open for 10 hours, the visitors are more spread out during the day. If you open the same store for 5 hours, the same amounts of visitors will visit the store, except more crammed up this time, more crowdedness because people have less time to get their stuff, which results in more contact moments. I work in retail so I know.

About the 'vaccins are the way out' point.. Vaccins are the way out is what they said 1 year ago. Everybody took theirs, suddenly you needed 2. Then they apparently they don't work well enough, so now we need a booster. Then we will need booster 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. When will it stop? Oh btw, vaccins can have some nasty side effects too.

And then, enough anectodal evidence.. you can say all you want, but since you mentioned 90% of people just living their lives like before corona, total opposite here. People around me who never had issues, are now depressed, doing things they usually wouldn't do. If you were a completely isolated attic room zombie pre-corona, I can imagine your life didn't change much after the measures/lockdowns (not aimed at you personally) but for a lot of people, the things they took from us (social contacts, gym, parties, doing fun things in general) were the only things that kept us from not going insane in this prestige-driven, robotic, fucked up world. I don't know how many people you're in contact with on a day-to-day basis, but because of my work it's 100+ for me, and I can tell you your '90% of people just live their lives like normal' is sooo far from the reality. Sadly.

I stand by my point. Fucking up an entire generation mentally & economically is way worse than letting <1% of infected people die. Lockdowns and random measures are cancer. The damage from lockdowns will be visible for multiple decades from now. Use common sense instead of being in irrational fear.

And btw, depression is worse than death.

I've said enough, you won't change my view.