Layering sounds - supersaws, frequencies etc. Help?

[jontah]

Heya!

Really cool to see the forum back up, loving this forum.

I was wondering if anyone could give any tips and tricks about layering sounds to make it sound unique. I have a problem that whatever sounds I layer with the supersaws, it always kinda sounds the same.

How do you scope for frequencies to share and not share in a sound and how important is this when layering?

I'm trying to make the typical pitchbend supersaw lead such as heared in Noisecontrollers track:



How do I do this? I wish to recreate the sound to begin with and develope from there.

I noticed that the lead itself is VERY clean, there's no whitenoise or such in the higher frequencies, maybe they cut the higher frequencies and boost the mids? (am I totally wrong here?) I want that clean, thick lead feeling, but when using the virus for this it just gives me a wall of noise ontop.

Answers much appreciated. Thanks!

[SebbeTg]

think you gave the wrong link mate!

[jontah]

think you gave the wrong link mate!

oops sorry here it is:

[Soundphase]

there is no layering involved with that sound

it's synthesis and proper mixing, when you make a sound you don't just flick on some sawtooth oscs, you have to create the sound with all the fundamental synthesis knobs - pulsewidth, LFO, PWM, aftertouch, velocity..... Everything counts and you have to tweek these knobs extremely slowly and carefully if you want to get a good sound..

if you think your lead sounds too thin, this is NOT a case of needing more layers, it's a case of bad mixing

[jontah]

there is no layering involved with that sound

it's synthesis and proper mixing, when you make a sound you don't just flick on some sawtooth oscs, you have to create the sound with all the fundamental synthesis knobs - pulsewidth, LFO, PWM, aftertouch, velocity..... Everything counts and you have to tweek these knobs extremely slowly and carefully if you want to get a good sound..

if you think your lead sounds too thin, this is NOT a case of needing more layers, it's a case of bad mixing

So if its not just flick on some sawtooths oscs and mix them well together - what is it all about? aftertouch? really? isnt' that stuff only for orchestration?

So where do I begin? I really want to evolve my experience in this and become good at making leads.

I know about the fast LFO controlling pitch to make an extra phase and all that stuff. I actually own a virus ti desktop and know some about synthesis, thus I don't know how to make good sounds together and make it sound complex.

The answer is much appreciated. Thanks.

[Soundphase]

well a lead such as that NC lead will have a full sustain in the volume envelope, you want to work mostly with the PWM, FM and osc phase in the synth you're using because these will change the sound so you get your own unique sound different to that typical sawtooth/square/sine sound

things can get more complex when you assign an LFO to the pwm, synchronize oscs together etc. Just experiment
what I used to do when I was young was twist all the knobs and see what happens, it sounds kind of stupid but it actually was how I learned a lot of things and even gave me interesting sounds

you can also make your own waveforms in some synths like Zebra, and Cable Guys - Curve 2

[jontah]

well a lead such as that NC lead will have a full sustain in the volume envelope, you want to work mostly with the PWM, FM and osc phase in the synth you're using because these will change the sound so you get your own unique sound different to that typical sawtooth/square/sine sound

things can get more complex when you assign an LFO to the pwm, synchronize oscs together etc. Just experiment
what I used to do when I was young was twist all the knobs and see what happens, it sounds kind of stupid but it actually was how I learned a lot of things and even gave me interesting sounds

you can also make your own waveforms in some synths like Zebra, and Cable Guys - Curve 2

Yup I know alot about modulations etc aswell. Been experimenting alot.

I'm using the virus TI2 desktop for this.

Hm... PWM? Are u sure? it sounds like detuned hypersaws & normal sawtooths for me.

Maybe I'm wrong.

About PWM, when I'm assigning an LFO to the PWM I really dont hear anything different at all. What OSCs do I need for PWM to work properly? pulse? I'm kind of unexperienced when it comes to PWM (not that I don't know what it is.. I know exactly what it is and how it sounds like and how it looks like). Is it common as hell in hardstyle?

EDIT: I hear a difference when I'm changing it to pulse ofc and assigning a SLOW LFO to modulate it, but it doesn't sound particulary good.

[Soundphase]

About PWM, when I'm assigning an LFO to the PWM I really dont hear anything different at all. What OSCs do I need for PWM to work properly? pulse? I'm kind of unexperienced when it comes to PWM (not that I don't know what it is.. I know exactly what it is and how it sounds like and how it looks like). Is it common as hell in hardstyle?

EDIT: I hear a difference when I'm changing it to pulse ofc and assigning a SLOW LFO to modulate it, but it doesn't sound particulary good.

you need a square wave for pwm to work, pwm stands for pulse width modulation, when you change the value you're changing the length of the pulse waveform and its sound changes, at specific lengths it can sound really abstract

square waves are actually very common in pads and you wouldn't think it, but some pwm and detune voices on a simple square wave can transform the square wave sound into that euphoric string pad sound.

try combining a saw and square together, and tweek them together, the saw will add warmth to the sound

what synth you use also plays a big part in the kind of sound you want, for example a nord rack would be more ideal for that sound in my opinion, whereas the virus is good for supersaws, each synth has a different way of processing the signal

[ljk32]

My god, how hard is it to do your own research?


PWM is exactly what it suggests - the modulation of the width of a pulse waveform.

We can't tell you how to make the lead, all we can do is speculate.

[jontah]

About PWM, when I'm assigning an LFO to the PWM I really dont hear anything different at all. What OSCs do I need for PWM to work properly? pulse? I'm kind of unexperienced when it comes to PWM (not that I don't know what it is.. I know exactly what it is and how it sounds like and how it looks like). Is it common as hell in hardstyle?

EDIT: I hear a difference when I'm changing it to pulse ofc and assigning a SLOW LFO to modulate it, but it doesn't sound particulary good.

you need a square wave for pwm to work, pwm stands for pulse width modulation, when you change the value you're changing the length of the pulse waveform and its sound changes, at specific lengths it can sound really abstract

square waves are actually very common in pads and you wouldn't think it, but some pwm and detune voices on a simple square wave can transform the square wave sound into that euphoric string pad sound.

try combining a saw and square together, and tweek them together, the saw will add warmth to the sound

what synth you use also plays a big part in the kind of sound you want, for example a nord rack would be more ideal for that sound in my opinion, whereas the virus is good for supersaws, each synth has a different way of processing the signal

Cheers for the explanation, although I already know what PMW IS, I just don't find it very useful in leads. But as you're suggesting, I might need to incorporate it again with my leads and blending it together with saws! So cheers for that =)

I wonder though - do you hear any PWM in that NC lead that I just posted? I really don't ;/