People on here are hilarious. I am aware there is an amateur scene, with smaller raves being put on etc, but seriously, hardstyle is one of the most exclusive genres out there - there seems to be very little middle ground between the top guys and the bottom.MarlboroMan wrote:Imo the scene needs a down-size.
This analogy doesn't really stand up. It's like comparing oranges and apples - or rather, like comparing making a sandwich to making a diamond watch. I do agree Echidna's view about people over-estimating the kick making process, it's more about the time that you have to spend getting there. It is of course entirely different to using a pre-made sweep cause it's quicker than the equally easy option of setting up a white noise oscillator, automate a filter etc etc... than it is to say fuck it, I can't be bothered to put in the hours it takes to make a kick so I'll just use someone elses. Phuture Noize also said in this thread that making your own kick gives it your own character - absolutely. Whatever mistakes, nuances, whatever, that go into your process will make that kick uniquely yours. It'd be next to impossible for someone to have coincidentally tweaked everything exactly the same as you.Echidna wrote:Producers who disagree with this need to go to their hard drives and delete all their sample packs. This is no different to a vengeance, prime loops or sample magic pack. It'll help hardstyle in a lot of ways, invoke more creativity etc
As I said above, I agree with this sentiment, but then you go on to say (unless I misunderstood?) that for this reason sampling a kick is ok? Doesn't add up to me. A lot of people here saying it'll make it 'easier' to write (lol) and they'll 'use it as reference'; please.Echidna wrote:Lets be realistic, a hardstyle kick is not as hard to make as people seem to proclaim. Its a process, like everything else sound design related. A process can be learned, repeated and perfected. It is not a holy grail or secret code that can't be broken.
A very good point indeed. Although I said above that HS is very exclusive, there is obviously (much like any genre) tonnes of bedroom producers out there, some of which are making bangers. People in this thread talk about Frontliner's giant ego and I'm inclined to agree - his opinion of "there aren't enough creative producers out there"? Fucking look harder, because they ARE out there.DaBeatPlayah wrote:Frontliner says there aren't enough producers out there, i however on the other hand find that we have enough. Go on Soundcloud and you'll eventually find how many there are.
As much as I agree with many of your points here, they don't all apply especially within hardstyle. Maybe I am being like an old man but... That's simply the way this music has evolved and to have such a huge shake up away from sound design culture at this point would turn it into something else entirely. Believe me, layering up some kicks which themselves are already layers of kicks made by someone else is gonna sound shit. When you say 'why even waste your time if the material IS already there?' I cringe a bit. How the hell can people talk about 'creativity' like its separate from sound design? Do you guys listen to raw? All the creativity is in the sound design. As pretentious as this is gonna sound (really don't care), a lot of these opinions seem to stem from a lack of understanding on how this music is made. Those huge sounds that get you off in the rave? That kind of quality is what comes from a couple of decades of sound design and refinement. Go have a look at other music where the emphasis isn't there and that 'huge' wall of noise sound just isn't there - jump up drum n bass, grime, etc. I'm not saying these genres are any worse - just that the emphasis is different, and part of the soul of HS is the propensity for absolutely ridiculous huge sound design. I don't mean to pick on one person but this quote echoes so many people in this thread:noiseshock_of wrote:yes. so much this.
To begin with: "if you wish to make apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe". You never really create anything from scratch. Everything is already there. The kickdrum you made "yourself" is a modification of a computer generated sound, which was programmed by a software team, using computers made of electronic components, which are extracted from the earth I suppose.
Hardstyle has that ridiculous DIY culture especially for sound design. like you HAVE TO be a studio nerd who spends hours, days, years making sounds and listening to kicks on repeat. This kind of producers reminds me of old grandparents, like "I had to do it all myself and so will you".
Sorry to disapoint, but there is a lot of producers who dont really care about the means, rather the ends. You want a cool synth? use presets. You want a cool kickdrum? use a sample. Layer them. Modify them. Use them in different ways. Just like painters do with paint.. That way you make sure the sounds are OK, without falling into insecurity, which ultimately leads to creative blocks. Why even waste your time if the material IS already there? Why not just get the good sounds by any means and 100% focus on the musically creative work, the track sounding nice to the ears, the final product. The music itself. Ultimately, what talent stands for.
"it's about creativity and making a good song". This is a gross oversimplification of what it takes to make a good track, and also to make it. Yes it obviously takes creativity, but it also takes a lot more than that. If creativity was all it took, the genre would already be oversaturated with fantastic producers. Here's another one:FonsMans wrote:haters everywhere. I love hs but this scene is so fcked up. wining about kicks n shit. good music is good music. a lot of big artists are using each others kicks. it's about creativity. and making a good song.
This made me cry a little inside. Yep, lets avoid all the hard work and just do the fun bit! You younger guys might not wanna hear it but there really is no gain without pain. Anything worth doing is gonna have some hard work at some point.RaVaGe wrote:I think it's great for someone who want to learn how to produce, this way you can avoid the really hard process of learning from scratch and start directly to be creative.
All that to basically say what Phuture Noize said. A lot of people defending this as 'enabling creativity' and 'it'll be great for reference'. Well, I admire your optimism but it seems much more likely this will, on the whole, enable laziness. On the other hand, I don't think it signals 'the death of hardstyle' as others (on reddit for instance) are saying - if anything it'll just make it easier to recognise when someone new is doing something a bit special.
Tbh, after writing all this I sort of thought... Frontliner? You really stopped being relevant to me a while ago. So whatever.
p.s. i'll obviously be downloading this at some point but definitely not for 30 quid. gonna go spend a few hours trying to make kicks then rage quit and make some 5 minute grime bangers instead.
(few exceptions ofc...)
