How do you know you're in a minor key in hardstyle?

[jontah]

Hey guys, really loving this forum, learning alot here, as I'm new to hardstyle.

I have a question.. All my melodies seem to sound very "happy".

I've tried to write melodies in minor keys but honestly it doesn't make any difference. BUT HOW do you know you're in a minor key when writing melodies in Hardstyle?

Lets say I'm in C minor, that would mean it's the EXACT same scale as D# major, right? Just that in the C minor scale, I start with a C as rootnote, instead of D# as a rootnote.

So.. that makes me pretty confused, because when trying to make a more "minor" melody instead of "major" melody, I could for example start with for example the fourth in that scale which is F in this case (since we're in C minor), or in G since that's the fifth of the scale. But still , that would be the same as if I started on the second or third note of D# which is F or G!

You see my point? I'm simply wondering HOW to sound minor'ish when not starting on the ROOTnote of that minor scale. Since we're not using any THIRDS, we cannot determine wether it's a minor or major key!

Please help on this matter. Here's a melody I did when trying to start on C minor, and lol, it sounds very happy to me!

[D-Verze]

Lets say I'm in C minor, that would mean it's the EXACT same scale as D# major, right? Just that in the C minor scale, I start with a C as rootnote, instead of D# as a rootnote.

D# chord is D#, G, A#, Cm chord is C, D#, E, so no.

[jontah]

Lets say I'm in C minor, that would mean it's the EXACT same scale as D# major, right? Just that in the C minor scale, I start with a C as rootnote, instead of D# as a rootnote.

D# chord is D#, G, A#, Cm chord is C, D#, E, so no.

Whats your point? I do know that? I'm not talking about chords, I'm talking about scales when doing melodies.. G and A# is still in the C minor scale.

[Qobalt]

Man, try to make some melodies in A minor. It is equal (I mean keys are equal) to C major, but root note is A and all chord progressions are linked to it. It is very simple, cause you have no 'black keys' in it.
There are three 'main' notes (like a stages) in every scale: tonic, subdominant and dominant. The most common chord progression is based on this three notes. For C major they are C, F and G. For A minor they are A, D, E. So compare:
- for C major scale:
1st chord (based on tonic): C - E - G
2nd chord (based on subdominant): F - A - C
3rd chord (based on dominant): G - B - D

- for A minor scale:
1st chord (based on tonic): A - C - E
2nd chord (based on subdominant): D - F - A
3rd chord (based on dominant): E - G - B

Hear the difference between these two chord progressions. Try to make (at first time) melodies, which are based on that chord progressions. Sometimes you can vary and link additional chords, sometimes you can do nice transitions from minor to major scales (like in some of Noisecontrollers melodies). Try all.

If you don't want to start your melody with 1st stage (root note), try to do something with your bassline or things.

P.S. There are different ways to spell B-note. In my music school B was A# and A## was H. So I mean A##

[jontah]

Man, try to make some melodies in A minor. It is equal (I mean keys are equal) to C major, but root note is A and all chord progressions are linked to it. It is very simple, cause you have no 'black keys' in it.
There are three 'main' notes (like a stages) in every scale: tonic, subdominant and dominant. The most common chord progression is based on this three notes. For C major they are C, F and G. For A minor they are A, D, E. So compare:
- for C major scale:
1st chord (based on tonic): C - E - G
2nd chord (based on subdominant): F - A - C
3rd chord (based on dominant): G - B - D

- for A minor scale:
1st chord (based on tonic): A - C - E
2nd chord (based on subdominant): D - F - A
3rd chord (based on dominant): E - G - B

Hear the difference between these two chord progressions. Try to make (at first time) melodies, which are based on that chord progressions. Sometimes you can vary and link additional chords, sometimes you can do nice transitions from minor to major scales (like in some of Noisecontrollers melodies). Try all.

If you don't want to start your melody with 1st stage (root note), try to do something with your bassline or things.

P.S. There are different ways to spell B-note. In my music school B was A# and A## was H. So I mean A##

Yup I know all of this.. trust me, I'm a pianoplayer and I've been to musical school too..

It's just that when you are making those melodies, you don't actually stick to the chordprogression ALL the time, I mean.. you put the notes which sounds right, right? if you would only stick to that specific chord lets say Am, you would only be able to stick with A, C, E, G etc.. you get my point? or am I thinking the wrong way? Do the proffessionals actually think about the melodynotes to fit into the basslines chord? or do they just freely put the notes where and experiment, until it sounds good?

I did read a post about melodies here on harderstate forum and that u should stick to the chord notes for it to sound good, but for me it doesn't always work that way..

Anyways, my melodies always sound so majorish, so, what you're saying is that IF I want to sound minorish, I should...?

[jontah]

Anyone? Please?

[jontah]

Come on, I need some answers on this, really driving me crazy here ;o

[RaVaGe]

You don't care, just push on the note wich sounds cool

[jontah]

You don't care, just push on the note wich sounds cool

But at this point I've done that far too much and really want it to sound minor'ish.. hence therefore I posted this

[noaii]

Learn the possible triads of minor key and how they move relative to each other. In hardstyle, aeolian and harmonic minor are often mixed. That allows the tracks to sound dark but not depressing. The V-i movement is important there. If you play Emin-Amin youre playin (v-i on aeolian Aminor) and if you play Emaj-Amin it's( V-i in harmonic Aminor). If you want to sound like early 2000's trance Try(VI-v-i) or (i-v-VI-iv). For more hardstylish sound you change the minor 6th to a major one on the second run(if you decided to use the minor v before) and try to end with V-i movement. You might also want to use the diminished parts of the scales. In aeolian mode the second chord is diminished.

In recent melodies I've analysed I've seen this kinda progressions: VI-i-i7-vi*dim-IV*aug//VI-i-i7-vi*dim-V-iadd11 if you play those chords as a rising arpeggio you get something like this

You can see here how the VI is used for euphoric kinda feeling and the V-i is used to qlimax the melody in the end there. Also the dimished and augmented chords are used to make it darker.

If you're new to the roman numerals things here's a quick explanation: Scales consist of 7 notes. That means 7 triads. Triads are every other note of scale played together example A-C-E in the aeolian minor of A. So we have chords 1-7. You use capitals to mark major chords and lowercase for minor. So i means the the first triad of a minor scale and I means the first chord of a major scale. There are also markings for dimished and augmented that I don't know.

To wrap it up if you're having issues understanding this post you should learn about scales and intervals, there's plenty of material online(for free ofc). And for that hardstylish sound use the V instead of v. Play around with chords untill you know what the movements sound like. Remember that a good chord progression doesn't automatically translate to a good melody. I've heard surprising chord progressions used to create very poferfull and emotional melodies. Knowing the chords help you in your melody making and note selecting but it doesn't write the melody for you. Keep practising and have fun.
Don't feel afraid to correct any mistakes I've made I'm still learning myself

Edit: here's a work in progress of mine that goes iv-i-III-ii(dim)//iv-VI-V-i

I decided to add this because I think it's a nice example...

Edit2: I just read my post and it turned out pretty messy... So to clarify: Practise chords and try to get an idea how they sound. Play them in different orders to get an idea of what you like/don't like. Analyze melodies you like and try learn from them.