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Arivdtjuh's Hardstyle kick topic

For all Hardstyle tutorials regarding DJ'ing and Producing
  

Postby FonsMans » 17 Aug 2011, 21:21

hardstylah:My opinion: If you don't know EXACTLY what you're doing, then stay the hell away from all the knobs and buttons, and ESPECIALLY low-end cheapo amateur shit like Junglist or Zeta or anything else.

Only a few people in the world know how to make a nu-kick, even Blutonium Boy doesn't know how do it, and he's a very experienced man! (Part of the reason Blutonium Boy retired is because he hasn't been able to keep up with the times. His Vol.1+2 Blutonium Samples CDs don't contain any Nu-style samples, and his Soundset for Metrum VST is oldskool Hardstyle, so he doesn't have these skills unfortunately.)

In summary, what I'm trying to say is this: Don't even try to get anywhere by youself, because Nu-kicks are an extremely difficult thing to accomplish, and you'll only give yourself a headache. Your song is only as strong as its weakest element. If your Nu-kick isn't EXACTLY 100% right, you will be VERY frustrated.

There are 2 options.

1) There is a soundset called Nu-Style Invasion, made by Dutch producers (http://www.hardsamples.com/) It contains ~30 Nu-kicks, packed as SoundFonts (.SF) that you can play on different notes, and it costs around 50 EUR.

http://www.hardsamples.com/hardstyle-sa ... -p-68.html (Vol.1)
http://www.hardsamples.com/hardstyle-sa ... -p-82.html (Vol.2)

It's not that great. They only managed to get maybe 70% of the way there, but not 100%. However, it's pretty close. Their sounds are very, very dry and painful, although they have a good bass and punch. A lot of EQ work would be needed. But at least someone's already done the hard work of the punch/subbass/distbass. This is perhaps the only sample pack available right now that's more-or-less "OK" (but still not good).

However, that's not what I recommend. I recommend Option #2 if you really want professional results.

2) Rip (that's right, rip) a Nu-Kick from a professional commercial track. And then pitch it in SoundForge, which has an excellent Pitch-Bender. That's what I do in my tracks and it sounds good. Don't pitch the very beginning of the sample (which is the punch), leave the punch as is; only pitch the bass-tail immediately following the punch.

SoundForge has a couple algorithms and anti-aliasing to ensure good pitching. It's very good (H) You need to check the box that says "Preserve Original Length" when pitching, that way all the notes will be equal in length.

There is also Option #3. It's impractical for most of us, but I mention it here because it exists:

3) Virus TI (i.e. hardware). Virus comes with good Nu-punches out of the box. I've heard that Scantraxx artists use Virus, it's not hard to program Nu-kicks there, in fact there's a YouTube video that shows it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9PEJ4551V4

also check out some of these Virus forum links
http://www.access-music.de/forum/index. ... ostID=6628
http://www.infekted.org/virus/showthread.php?p=296005

Unfortunately the Virus costs 1500 EUR and you might still have to learn some skills before getting anything good out of it.

SO the verdict, for the 90% of us who are beginner/intermediate producers of Nu-style, is Option #2. The only way to get satisfying results, right now, is to rip existing pro nu-kicks and pitch them with a good pitchbender (I recommend SoundForge for best results).

Take note: Even Manuel Schleis ("Vengeance") had trouble with these Nu-kicks and couldn't include them in his new VST, Metrum. He has a Hardstyle Expansion for Metrum but it sucks for Nu-Style, it only has oldskool sounds that no one's interested in anymore.

If even the world's top professional can't provide a single (!) good Nu-Kick sample, then there's really no hope for an intermediate or beginner person, so it's best to work with what we've got. Or, if you really want a super-solution, get a Virus.

But for god's sakes please don't use low-quality amateur VST-shitware like Junglist or Hydra or Camel Phat FX or whatever, it's all a bunch of crap and will only muddy up your mix and make it sound piss-poor.


congratulations that was the worst comment you could make as a producer, wtf dude camel phat->muddy up your mix? haha :wave: and yeah buy a virus, good kicks with that? no way man every vst with pitch envelope can do that...
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Postby diesal11 » 18 Aug 2011, 07:49

hardstylah:Only a few people in the world know how to make a nu-kick, even Blutonium Boy doesn't know how do it, and he's a very experienced man! (Part of the reason Blutonium Boy retired is because he hasn't been able to keep up with the times. His Vol.1+2 Blutonium Samples CDs don't contain any Nu-style samples)

That whole post was a load of shit.

Not to mention Hardkick10 was in the Qlimax 2010 anthem.........no Nu-style samples ey?
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Postby PumpStatic » 20 Mar 2012, 14:04

Thanks for this!
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Postby R3cl41m3r » 10 Sep 2012, 06:32

hardstylah:My opinion: If you don't know EXACTLY what you're doing, then stay the hell away from all the knobs and buttons, and ESPECIALLY low-end cheapo amateur shit like Junglist or Zeta or anything else.

It should be worth mentioning the only reason this guy hates plugins like Junglist, Zeta, Sylenth, etc is because they are mainstream. That's his only evidence.
hardstylah:He has a Hardstyle Expansion for Metrum but it sucks for Nu-Style, it only has oldskool sounds that no one's interested in anymore.

.....So he thinks nobody cares about the oldschool style anymore? This guy obviously hasn't heard of Thera, or the EHfags on youtube.....
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Postby R3cl41m3r » 10 Sep 2012, 06:39

Pyrapid:
Spectrum:
hardstylah:My opinion: If you don't know EXACTLY what you're doing, then stay the hell away from all the knobs and buttons, and ESPECIALLY low-end cheapo amateur shit like Junglist or Zeta or anything else.

You are the biggest fucking dumbass I've seen In a while, suck my dick

oh my god, this i love.

I make a simple 909-kick in Hydra, a simple omf.. i make my punches in hydra also, a simple tok.
Then i EQ/Dist them invidually and bounce them both to separate .wav files.

Then i pitch only the omf-sound in fruity sampler (never pitch a tok..) and put ze tok over it.

Easy peasy, the EQ/Dist is the only part that's actually hard.

Actually, it's EQ-Band Pass Filter-Distort that you need to do (except if you're using CamelPhat, which comes with a Band Pass Filter ;) ).
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Postby Wavelength » 27 Nov 2012, 03:44

Dunno if it is just because its 2am and I can barely see past the haze of tiredness but I tried following this, everything went fine until in my albino under the master there was no 'Aloon' preset. Anyone know what I am missing here? This was the only part that my mind just wouldn't decipher.

Time to call it a night and try again tomorrow.
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Postby R3cl41m3r » 29 Nov 2012, 12:37

Wavelength:Dunno if it is just because its 2am and I can barely see past the haze of tiredness but I tried following this, everything went fine until in my albino under the master there was no 'Aloon' preset. Anyone know what I am missing here? This was the only part that my mind just wouldn't decipher.

Time to call it a night and try again tomorrow.

If you're having trouble using Albino, you don't have to use it. This trick is possible using virtually any synth that supports sharp pitch drops. Even 3XOSC can do this. ;)
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Postby Statical » 19 Dec 2012, 09:37

Rather than starting a new topic, I figured this would be the best thread to stick my question in. Because it looks the idea of using samples has popped up a few times. The popular choice here is clearly to create your own kicks. I know if I keep working at it I will eventually be able to do the same, but after several months of staring at the same screen in FL and listening to my 4/4 pattern loop itself for hours, I am burnt out and just want to make a full track that someone would actually WANT to listen to. There is so much truth to that statement earlier about how if the kick is not up to that level of standard we come to expect from hardstyle tracks, the whole track is becomes amateur sounding and is brought down.

So that is why I really want to use sampled kicks at this point. Because I want to present a finished product that is respectable and to finally use some creativity for once as part of the track design instead of slaving over the technicals of just one element and watching hours of youtube tutorials. Can anyone relate? I have no problems creating leads, fx, or dealing any other element in the production process. This is the one shortcut I want to take. Do you think I can use premade heavily modded+layered sample kicks (not ripped) and go pretty much unnoticed until I create my own? Has anyone else done this? How about made a release that contained a premade kick?
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Postby ljk32 » 19 Dec 2012, 10:17

Well, I went through your posts just to see how your leads are doing. There's only one to go off, but I'd say it's okay, nothing special. You could be much better at leads, and that was just quickly chucked in, but I have nothing else to go off. So, if I was going to off the lead you posted 2 days ago, I'd say that using a sampled kick would make your tracks sound much nicer, but they still wouldn't be near a professional level(as I said, this is only going off the lead you posted). The reason I say this is because, deciding to use sampled kicks is up to you, and it's fine if you want to do so, but chucking them into your tracks won't get amazing results. You might get something sounding professional if you have no problems with your leads and other elements, like you said, but I highly doubt kicks are the only thing that are affecting the quality of your tracks. Maybe you could upload more stuff of yours so I could hear some of your productions(you can even add a sampled kick for it, I won't be paying attention)? I'm just saying, because I don't want you to get the idea that you aren't lacking in any other aspects of production, and not try to improve them. So yeah, maybe upload some stuff if you'd like, I'll check it out.

What I don't get though, is that you say you've been working for months on kicks, but in that other post you mention that it's your first kick. So is that the first kick you've ever worked on, and you've been working on it for months?

Anyway, with using sample kicks, or ripping kicks, it's completely up to you. I mean, most people on this forum wouldn't like you for it, and you wouldn't be receiving nice comments, but it depends on why you're making music. If you're making music solely for your own purposes, then do what you want, it's your music. If you wanna eventually show people your music, you''ll have to deal with the fact that the majority of people don't agree with using ripped kicks, and probably won't like your tracks because of that. Though, on that topic, unless your fan base is made up entirely of producers, a lot of listeners won't even be able to tell that your kicks are ripped(unless of course you are lacking in the other stuff I mentioned). But, with layering and processing ripped kicks so that they can't be identified as being ripped, again, it's up to you. Though, in this case you won't get as much hate from people that are able to recognise when a kick is stolen or not(but you'd have to process it pretty well to make it unrecognisable, and since you can't make kicks yourself, I don't know how that's gonna be any easier).

Personally, I'd say to just keep practising, it's not a race to get a release, so just keep working at your kicks and production in general. It isn't an easy thing as you've probably noticed, but you won't get better by using sample kicks. Also, wouldn't you feel like you haven't achieved anything or put any work in if you were to just use somebody else's kick? From what I've heard, a lot of people like making kicks for self-satisfaction, so they can be proud of what they've made(obviously so they can add their own touch to the kicks and make it the way they'd like to, but also to enjoy the fact that their hard work has paid off). In saying that though, it's completely up to you like I've said a few times, I think I've mentioned everything that came to mind.
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