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Biggest difference in slow hardcore and rawstyle?

  

Postby NEKA » 10 Aug 2017, 21:07

Title explains enough.

I am interested to hear opinions, theories and information what is the most biggest differents when comparing slow hardcore (both mainstream and industrial) to rawstyle. What are the key elements and sound designs?

I guess there's no right answer, but lets say if you compare these tracks:

Kasparov & Re-Style feat. Diesel - Explicit
Ran-D & Endymion - Antidote


Both are hardcore (even though the second track is far more rawstyle influenced) but sound completely different in feeling and hardness.
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Postby The Convicted » 10 Aug 2017, 21:25

Doomcore or industrial hardcore don't really have too much things in common with raw hardstyle, first ones are more monotonous because of heavy techno (and I think ambient as well) influences while rawstyle has been effected by different types of genres that might be a bit far away from each other (like typical hardcore or psytrance influences), not to mention you often hear some alternations between heavy and soft parts. Heavy part is the usual distorted kick and some screeches, the soft ones are breaks in between.
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Postby tha rippah » 10 Aug 2017, 21:44

A really good question, and I've been thinking about that a lot. I could just say "I just hear it", but that isn't really much of an argument. :+

What imo really defines it is the difference in drive. There's usually more percussion used in hardcore and in a different way than rawstyle. Rawstyle is more stready and if there's percussion used it's usually upon the kicks, and in hardcore it's more around the kicks.

Another thing is that the kicks in hardcore are usually more distorted, but there are quite many exceptions, so I don't really count that as a rule, tho there's still something typical with rawstyle kicks, that doesn't make them hardcore. Not to mention the many new uptempo or other regular mainstream tracks with kicks that are more rawstyle than hardcore. :+

Nightbreed Records is actually an interesting example. Many of the tracks released on the label sound more Enzyme than the actual label nowadays. :+ Maybe also because of the artists involved. With some triplet hi-hats and more distorted kicks I would count them as classic Enzyme / Supreme Intelligence hardcore. The essence is there, but the tracks are still hard/rawstyle :)
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Postby bassfaceBAM » 11 Aug 2017, 00:02

Nightbreed has 3 of it's biggest names all from Hardcore, Endymion MYST/Pandorum and High Voltage/Nosfertu so the hardcore sound is inevitable. For me Antidote is straight up Rawstyle and that album it's from is very much a hardcore album sprinkled with Raw.
I think the biggest difference is certainly the drive. Tha Rippah explained it very well for me. You get hardcore that kind of sounds raw due to the kicks and vice versa. It's funny how raw was very much more hardcore influenced than standard hardstyle was and now hardcore itself has become quite influenced by raw.
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Postby Bomberz » 11 Aug 2017, 00:16

bassfaceBAM:Nightbreed has 3 of it's biggest names all from Hardcore, Endymion MYST/Pandorum and High Voltage/Nosfertu so the hardcore sound is inevitable.

Break Zero are Prankster & Synthax so 5 names from the hardcore scene :)
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Postby bassfaceBAM » 11 Aug 2017, 00:46

Ah good to know
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Postby Bibifoc » 11 Aug 2017, 19:31

I don't see the slower hardcore side as being monotonous. Most of the time, tracks are constructed in dynamic ways, their rhythm is generally feeling faster, more complex and less predictable than Hardstyle tracks (as raw as they can be), especially in the noisier side which is way more extreme in that regard.
It's not just ambient/dark ambient or techno influences, the glitch and noise influences are very strong ones too.


The biggest difference between hardcorish hardstyle and slower hardcore is the liberty you have in composition.

To my ears, a bunch of bored producers and listeners in an eternally stagnating hardstyle scene seem to have discovered again a piece of hardcore's crazyness/brutality, helped by the presence of some well known hardcore peers. Impressed by how it sounds they try to re-create it within their hardstyle conceptions. It's weird how they still cannot see their compositions outside the rigid hardstyle sound, yet they want to change ... Not always bad tracks, but they're not taking much risks.

On contrary influences in hardcore are numerous (not only the 4 ones I wrote :D ), they can produce whatever they want (bad or not). Hardcore is a broad name for any track with recognizable distorted kick patterns, more or less broken/fast/violent/filthy. Many artists, mainstream or not, younger or older, have made unconventional/particular tracks in their journey.

It's hard to be interested by hardstyle in general when you already listened to the variety of hardcore musics producers make ...
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Postby Future Shokk » 11 Aug 2017, 20:43

The biggest difference? Less distortion, percussion and drive are used in Rawstyle. In fact most Rawstyle tracks have dry sounding kicks. Why even try to compare "slow" hc with Rawstyle? Completely diffrent styles of music :)
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Postby ThePrincipal » 12 Aug 2017, 01:13

^ this guy gets it.
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Postby Bibifoc » 12 Aug 2017, 15:48

Most raw hardstyle tracks I listened to didn't have dry sounding kicks. Some could surely compete with industrial hardcore ones in filthyness.
Or maybe I don't understand what do you mean by dry sounding kicks.
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Postby Reverse Ghost » 12 Aug 2017, 21:21

Some Raw kicks are harder than those older Hardcore kicks imo
unless it's millennium era Enzyme stuff (L) nothing can beat Through Inner Core.
But OT, I think it may also be the key the tracks are produced at? I mean compare a 160BPM Hardcore track from then to a 160BPM Raw track. At times they sound like completely different keys/octaves, like you will have this high key energetic Raw track then a slower sounding Hardcore track with a power pitch key, even though they're both at the same speed.
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